I found the story very interesting, therefore I found some additional information.
The wife of king Priam (Troy) had a dream that others predicted as her future son Paris shall bring the disaster to the Troy. They sent Paris to the mountain for a certain death. However, he survived and grew up among shepherds. Some day, he ended up near the party to which, Eris (goddess o strife- lack of harmony)was not invited. Eris threw the apple to the party with the writing on it: "to the most beautiful". The apple caused the conflict between three goddesses: Hera (wife of Zeus), Athena (Zeus' daughter) and Aphrodite ( goddess of love). They asked the shepherd (Paris) for his opinion. Hera promised to give him the power and wealth, Athena- wisdom and fame and Aphrodite promised a love of the most beautiful woman. Paris gave the apple to Aphrodite and soon he met Helena- beautiful woman, the wife of the king Menelaus (Sparta). Paris took her with him to Troy and caused 10 years war.
The motive of love and women is fascinating.
1.In a previously read story of Gilgamesh, Enkidu was seduced by a girl and he changed his behavior and appearance. 2. Next, Helena is a reason of the long war between Greeks and Troyans. 3.In Iliad, Thetis- the mother of Achilles was bagging Zeus for help. She grasped the knee of Zeus and held his chin. Zeus was scared to help to Thetis, because it could cause a problem with Hera (his wife). Fright from Helen did not stop Zeus however.
It seams that men are convinced by women that they adore and admire. Men are ready to fight or take any risk or change in life.
Because the Prince of Troy ran away with Helen the wife of Menelaus, the brother of Commander Agamemnon, the Achaeans (or Greeks) waged war with Troy for her return and also to punish the Trojans for Paris' blatant disrespect of the Greeks by abducting Helen.
I truthfully believe that there are moral values that govern the actions of the Acheans. For instance I feel that the Acheans actions are justified by their belief in their Gods. Even if the Acheans are fighting a horrific war and people are dieing left and right, the actions are justified by that moral value which is belief and praise. As long as they fight and kill for the right reasons with the permission of their Gods it is a moral value. It may be hard to understand because killing should never be considered a moral value, but I feel that to Acheans it was a moral value.
Although the story itself is interesting, I had to reread some parts again because there were many names that were presented in the epic. It gives a different perspective than Hollywood's rendering of Troy. As for moral value, I don't believe there is any. Achilles is among the first to point out there is no point to this war. The Greeks are only fighting on the behalf of one man's greed, Agamemnon.
Is there a 'moral value' that governs the actions of the Achaeans? No, there isn't. Agamemnon is a powerful selfish greedy man. He fought the war not for his brother, but to complete his ambition. Reason why I used the word "powerful" to describe him is because he can unite Greek and make them fought the war that they had no interest in, just to make him stronger, richer, and more power over others. On the other hand, Achilles, the strongest warrior in Greek, he joined the war because he wants to be remembered as the war hero who defeated the powerful Troy. However this conflicts with Agamemnon. Achilles, in order to get what he wanted, used his mother to convince Zeus to make Greek lose while he stops fighting, so people will ask for his help, so people would pray to him like he is a war lord. As you can see, there is no moral values in this war, the only purpose in this war is to complete their leaders' ambition, to lose lives for so that their leaders will be remembered.
It was confusing. But after reading it again and again to know what I was reading it was really interesting. I guess the moral value I saw was Aquilles wanting to protect his people. I guess to not think of yourself like Agamemnon is doing and but think of others too. To not be selfish.. To know where is the limit to ones power. Agamemnon abused his power thinking he is more powerful than the Gods by not returning the priests daughter.
In the beginning the story was very confusing but as we explore it more and more and understand the basic ideas of the story it gets very interesting. Agamemnon was the man because of whom all the conflict starts, he was very selfish and proud. He thought that he is the main guy in Greece but he wasn't, so he did some immoral actions and basically kidnapped the daughter of priest. He only thought of himself, but i think while you are ruling people you should think about all the people. Because of his actions everyone suffered.
The two Achaeans, Agamemnon and Achilles, seem to base their lives on personal glory and self pride. It is interesting to see that the argument between the two warriors is narrow and petty compared to the large scale war happening between their people and the Trojans. Also, self interest and personal pride spurrs the brash actions that they take during the war. Agamemnon's refusal to give his "prize" back to her father out of self dignity leads to a plague that kills off his people. And later, Achilles' "rage" caused by Agamemnon stealing his Briseis, leads him to seek revenge. However, winning his own pride back means that his own people, the Achaeans, must be defeated by the Trojans with the aid of Zeus. The two characters completeley disregard the bigger picture-the war going on between their own people. Their actions are governed by self interest and the raw emotions that arise are dominant and strong. This "rage" causes the two characters to lose their ability to reason and act as a rational human being. These examples show that human emotions must be contained and controlled in order to behave in a rational way. Acting out of your own desires and self interests fails to recognize the whole. And in the case of the Achaeans, the interests of the people as a whole is of more importance.
at first when i was reading this story i was really confused about the plot and the point of the story, i have read it a couple times and every time i read it i understand more. is there moral value that governs the Achaeans? i feel like all the characters are selfish at times and their personal rage they encounter happens at different times in the story and it effects decisions they make. selfishness equals one not thinking about anyone but themselves and agamenmon made this his value to treat people this way..
There are moral values that govern the action of the Achaeans. Yes the Achaeans go to war and a lot of blood is shed but there is a moral value behind that. Aristeia means to be the best warrior, to be invincible on the field. Growing up in ancient Greece men were taught to believe in Aristeia, if you died in battle it was an honorable death. Along with this belief the people of ancient Greece followed their gods orders/wishes. By following what the gods commanded the people believed it to be right so there was moral value behind their actions.
It took me a long time to understand the Iliad. First, I read the book but did not understand. second, I watched the movie "Troy" to get the general idea what Iliad is all about. Then, I started to understan. I found it very interesting because of the fights and killing. The Greeks were more concerned of their aristeia, eminance, then killing thausands of soldiers. Perhaps, aristeia for Greeks was more important then anyother worldly matters.
Of course there is "moral value" that governs the Achaeans, why else would they be fighting for ten years. It is all about winning and taking over, capturing and proving to others the power you have. The Achaean army, which was lead by Agamemnon, supported their chief in every decision he made. They had a goal and belief, and nothing could stop them besides another person that had mother moral values.
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ReplyDeleteHow did the conflict start?
ReplyDeleteI found the story very interesting, therefore I found some additional information.
The wife of king Priam (Troy) had a dream that others predicted as her future son Paris shall bring the disaster to the Troy. They sent Paris to the mountain for a certain death. However, he survived and grew up among shepherds. Some day, he ended up near the party to which, Eris (goddess o strife- lack of harmony)was not invited. Eris threw the apple to the party with the writing on it: "to the most beautiful". The apple caused the conflict between three goddesses: Hera (wife of Zeus), Athena (Zeus' daughter) and Aphrodite ( goddess of love). They asked the shepherd (Paris) for his opinion. Hera promised to give him the power and wealth, Athena- wisdom and fame and Aphrodite promised a love of the most beautiful woman. Paris gave the apple to Aphrodite and soon he met Helena- beautiful woman, the wife of the king Menelaus (Sparta). Paris took her with him to Troy and caused 10 years war.
The motive of love and women is fascinating.
1.In a previously read story of Gilgamesh, Enkidu was seduced by a girl and he changed his behavior and appearance.
2. Next, Helena is a reason of the long war between Greeks and Troyans.
3.In Iliad, Thetis- the mother of Achilles was bagging Zeus for help. She grasped the knee of Zeus and held his chin. Zeus was scared to help to Thetis, because it could cause a problem with Hera (his wife). Fright from Helen did not stop Zeus however.
It seams that men are convinced by women that they adore and admire. Men are ready to fight or take any risk or change in life.
Because the Prince of Troy ran away with Helen the wife of Menelaus, the brother of Commander Agamemnon, the Achaeans (or Greeks) waged war with Troy for her return and also to punish the Trojans for Paris' blatant disrespect of the Greeks by abducting Helen.
ReplyDeleteThese are all relevant comments, but they don't address the initial question of the post.
ReplyDeleteI truthfully believe that there are moral values that govern the actions of the Acheans. For instance I feel that the Acheans actions are justified by their belief in their Gods. Even if the Acheans are fighting a horrific war and people are dieing left and right, the actions are justified by that moral value which is belief and praise. As long as they fight and kill for the right reasons with the permission of their Gods it is a moral value. It may be hard to understand because killing should never be considered a moral value, but I feel that to Acheans it was a moral value.
ReplyDeleteAlthough the story itself is interesting, I had to reread some parts again because there were many names that were presented in the epic. It gives a different perspective than Hollywood's rendering of Troy. As for moral value, I don't believe there is any. Achilles is among the first to point out there is no point to this war. The Greeks are only fighting on the behalf of one man's greed, Agamemnon.
ReplyDeleteIs there a 'moral value' that governs the actions of the Achaeans?
ReplyDeleteNo, there isn't.
Agamemnon is a powerful selfish greedy man. He fought the war not for his brother, but to complete his ambition. Reason why I used the word "powerful" to describe him is because he can unite Greek and make them fought the war that they had no interest in, just to make him stronger, richer, and more power over others.
On the other hand, Achilles, the strongest warrior in Greek, he joined the war because he wants to be remembered as the war hero who defeated the powerful Troy. However this conflicts with Agamemnon. Achilles, in order to get what he wanted, used his mother to convince Zeus to make Greek lose while he stops fighting, so people will ask for his help, so people would pray to him like he is a war lord.
As you can see, there is no moral values in this war, the only purpose in this war is to complete their leaders' ambition, to lose lives for so that their leaders will be remembered.
It was confusing. But after reading it again and again to know what I was reading it was really interesting. I guess the moral value I saw was Aquilles wanting to protect his people. I guess to not think of yourself like Agamemnon is doing and but think of others too. To not be selfish.. To know where is the limit to ones power. Agamemnon abused his power thinking he is more powerful than the Gods by not returning the priests daughter.
ReplyDeleteIn the beginning the story was very confusing but as we explore it more and more and understand the basic ideas of the story it gets very interesting.
ReplyDeleteAgamemnon was the man because of whom all the conflict starts, he was very selfish and proud. He thought that he is the main guy in Greece but he wasn't, so he did some immoral actions and basically kidnapped the daughter of priest. He only thought of himself, but i think while you are ruling people you should think about all the people. Because of his actions everyone suffered.
The two Achaeans, Agamemnon and Achilles, seem to base their lives on personal glory and self pride. It is interesting to see that the argument between the two warriors is narrow and petty compared to the large scale war happening between their people and the Trojans.
ReplyDeleteAlso, self interest and personal pride spurrs the brash actions that they take during the war.
Agamemnon's refusal to give his "prize" back to her father out of self dignity leads to a plague that kills off his people. And later, Achilles' "rage" caused by Agamemnon stealing his Briseis, leads him to seek revenge. However, winning his own pride back means that his own people, the Achaeans, must be defeated by the Trojans with the aid of Zeus.
The two characters completeley disregard the bigger picture-the war going on between their own people. Their actions are governed by self interest and the raw emotions that arise are dominant and strong. This "rage" causes the two characters to lose their ability to reason and act as a rational human being.
These examples show that human emotions must be contained and controlled in order to behave in a rational way. Acting out of your own desires and self interests fails to recognize the whole. And in the case of the Achaeans, the interests of the people as a whole is of more importance.
at first when i was reading this story i was really confused about the plot and the point of the story, i have read it a couple times and every time i read it i understand more. is there moral value that governs the Achaeans? i feel like all the characters are selfish at times and their personal rage they encounter happens at different times in the story and it effects decisions they make. selfishness equals one not thinking about anyone but themselves and agamenmon made this his value to treat people this way..
ReplyDeleteThere are moral values that govern the action of the Achaeans. Yes the Achaeans go to war and a lot of blood is shed but there is a moral value behind that. Aristeia means to be the best warrior, to be invincible on the field. Growing up in ancient Greece men were taught to believe in Aristeia, if you died in battle it was an honorable death. Along with this belief the people of ancient Greece followed their gods orders/wishes. By following what the gods commanded the people believed it to be right so there was moral value behind their actions.
ReplyDeleteIt took me a long time to understand the Iliad. First, I read the book but did not understand. second, I watched the movie "Troy" to get the general idea what Iliad is all about. Then, I started to understan. I found it very interesting because of the fights and killing. The Greeks were more concerned of their aristeia, eminance, then killing thausands of soldiers. Perhaps, aristeia for Greeks was more important then anyother worldly matters.
ReplyDeleteOf course there is "moral value" that governs the Achaeans, why else would they be fighting for ten years. It is all about winning and taking over, capturing and proving to others the power you have. The Achaean army, which was lead by Agamemnon, supported their chief in every decision he made. They had a goal and belief, and nothing could stop them besides another person that had mother moral values.
ReplyDelete