Is Socrates wise to choose death over exile? What kind of Greek figure is the Greek philosopher, compared to the heroes of the Iliad and The Odyssey, epic poems that are mentioned several times in the Apology?
My anarchist heart screams about how foolish it is to die for the state. In truth, it's very difficult for me to pass judgement on this - because the whole concept of the state was totally different in the age of Socrates. The world was smaller then. To Socrates, I imagine there must have been a very real and meaningful sense belonging - a sense of place in his community. I think for him, it was better to die for his beliefs than to live and dishonor them. I also think his decision was probably influenced by a sense of religion. As an atheist, I can't relate to that, so again - I make no attempt to judge.
If nothing else, I recognize Socrates as one of the greatest minds of the ancient world, so if I had to guess, I'd say yes - it was probably very wise of him.
I think Socrates was a wise, poor, and very smart man. God had sent him to Greeks as rightious man. He had his own followers and enemies at the same time. He made enemies from observing number of people, such as politicians, poets, and craftsman, who pretendet to possess some kind of knowledge. In reality, Socrates found them having some or no knowledge. Hence, he accounted them as unwise because they did not know sh*t. Heros of the Iliad and the Odysseey, on the other hand, were arrogant, full of rage, and professional fighters, such as Achilles. Socrates's wisdom appealed to me more than Achillies's aristeia. I liked the way he questioned,cross-examined, and contradicted Meletus, one of his accusers. He was innocent of the charge because he proved it by reasoning. He also called people to testify against him if he truely was an evil man. No one did. Was he wise to chose death over exile? I think yes he was. First, he beleived in destiny. Therefore, he was sure that it was his fate to die there. Second,he was old and poor, as he said, "For I am far advanced in years, as you may perceive, and not far from death." Therefore, going to a foreign country could not guarantee longer and better life. Third, he said that he had nothing to loose. He thaught people not to fear death as some people beleived that diying was something bad and evil. He said that there was either life after death or nothingness. Therefore, Socrates was wise to chose death over exile.
I agree with Firuz that questioning one's life is better than proving how good you are by how many enemies you killed. As if Socrates was wise to chose death over exile is not clear to me. I believe that to go to exile is not option for Socrates no matter what. It would change him dramatically.He was a man of principle and truth. He upheld his believes and principles eventhough meant his death.
Was Socrates believes wise? He believed that by going to exile he would breach the social contract with Athene. In his dialog to Crito he used the Parent child comparison. He says "it is impious to use violence against your father or your mother." I do not believe that one has the moral obligation towards his country in this way.
He also believed that the exile is act of violence on Athens. Since the laws would not be upheld the Athens would crumble. I don't believe that his exile would have such effect.
To sum this up I think he could not chose exile because of his believes. Is that wise? Perhaps in Socrates case yes. Was his believes valid and wise. I am not quite sure.
From all the Greek figures we have encountered this semester thus far Socrates stands out to me the most. Socrates by far is the wisest of all. It is not merely what he knows, but it is what he questions. In Socrates case it was wise to choose death over exile for several reasons. One he was already old he was not going to live a much longer life, two if he chose death he would die with glory, meaning in a way he achieved his goal that God sent him to the people to open their eyes and tell them the truth. I believe that if Socrates would of chosen exile his name today would not be as admired. He died for what he believed in he died a pure man.
What actually appealed to me the most was the way in which Socrates was defending himself and making Meletus and the rest of his accusers feel ignorant and wrong. Me personally wanting to be come a lawyer admire such a great defense.
I would like to correct my previous post little bit. Although I was more addressing why he did not accept the offer to escape, I think it also helps to illustrate how loyal he was to Athens. He also realized that no mater where he would go he would offed and irritated people and they would soon or later execute him any how.
Socrates was a wise man, who favored his belief over the society and gods. I think he was wise enough to choose death over exiled because as he says that he was teaching his students to obey laws and government and if he had gone against these laws than he would have been looked over as a bad figure in history as compare to what we see him today second of all he was really old and he didn't have any wealth that he can live happily even when he is exiled. Philosophers were look upon as a great figure in society and there was a lot of respect for teachers in Athenian society, but not as much as compare to war heroes because teachers were often slaves for other countries. In ancient society everything was dependent over power and power was gained through conquer and large armies, so we can say that war heroes were more of figure as compare to philosophers.
I have to say, the Greeks (at least in story) had it right about death. This concept that life is permanent, this fear of death we've all developed, the sense of self preservation, is such bull sh*t. We are dying from the moment we are born and it's what you do with the time you have that matters. Socrates knew that and for that, he chose to die, and die well.
I'm not saying anyone should cut their life short deliberately. I'm not saying one day out of the blue you decide "Well, I'm dying anyway, let's just speed this process up." But Socrates, Achilles, Antigone, they knew death would come when it came and they all preferred to have done one good thing with their (short) lives, than nothing at all with a long one.
Now, Socrates lived a long life. He was an old man. What would he have gained by living a few more years in exile? Nothing. And so, in that respect, he made the correct, logical choice. But it's more than that; to have chosen anything other than death would have made his entire life a waste of time. How important would the things he had been saying his entire life be if at the moment of truth he retracted them?
Same goes for Achilles; he knew if he went back to battle, to kill Hector, death would come to him shortly after. But death is coming anyway, so what would he have gained by living a long life, having the un-avenged death of his companion on his back weighing him down? Antigone looked death square in the eye. She made her choice and stood by it to the end.
These people are made of “the good stuff.” They are made not only of courage, but of wisdom. The wisdom to know that permanency is a lie and so to follow your heart, whatever the consequences, is the not only the right way to be, but the only way (or at least it should be).
Was it wise for Socrates to choose death over exil? Personally I would disagree because I don't have the same standards as Greek philosophers. But for Socrates life is about questioning his surrounding and discover the unknown. Through out the text, he made it clear that he knew the outcome of an exile. Running away from Athens would not only broke the rules he lived by but he knew there was no place else to go as elder and politicians would persecute him as soon as he open his mouth and educate the youth. What was the unknown out come? Death was. I think he chose death because he was questioning it. He was eager to discover if the is an afterlife or not. Also by running he would have made his accusers' point as not been able to live by the rules he taught others. Heroes conquer the world to acquire fame. Philosophers question it...
I think Socrates was wise to choose death over exile because when your exiled your left alone to think about what you did. Basically your being punished for having your own mind and thoughts and whose right it is to judge you for having your own thoughts about what you believe in? Its nobody's right because there is other people out there that believes and thinks the same things as you do. I feel that Socrates knew that and he even stated that if you kill me or exile me there is going to be somebody else that will make a bigger protest and you might not be able to control them. Also the fact that he was an old man when he was judged had a factor to that, he lived his life to the fullest and if he went into exile he would have to start his life all over again, but that doesn't mean that his way of thinking was going to change. So he decided for death because it was more sensible and the only other alternative.
Socrates and Achilles stood up for something they believed, even though an easier opportunity was given. Socrates chose death over exile because he could not live in a world were his thoughts and ideas would be limited or forbidden. He truly believed his words, and could not understand why others saw it as a threat or danger. Perhaps we was right after all, and the majority was trying to hide and even eliminate his statements. Just like Socrates, Achilles did not want to give into Agamemnon's offer in Book 9. It is not only pride, but also self realizations that both characters have and it can not be taken away by anyone. Only death could put these two figures at rest, and after that as Socrates says: "only god knows".
There are many good reasons for Socrates to choose death over living. In stead of fearing to die, which many people wish he would do, he stood up for what he believes in. It would make a great impact on his follower and inspire others. As we all know, Socrates loves to pursuit truth and his country, he believes if his death can lead to a dramatic change in this culture, why not. On the other hand, if he did took back his words, then he would be nothing special, he would just seem like a kid who doesn't know what he is talking about, needs someone to teach him what's real. It would show that he is not so confident at his belief, at least not confident enough to sacrifice himself. So by looking at the long-run, Socrates did the right thing.
In my personal opinion, Socrates decided correctly on death over being exiled. Being exiled could possibly be one of the biggest sources of torture any individual. If one would question how this is so, one can put themselves in the shoes of that individual. Imagine, as being a natural born United States citizen, you become exiled from being in your homeland. Would you not suffer more pain being some where of which is not your homeland? No family, No friend, No reason to have nationalistic views. This would cause much more pain than that of a short term pain of death. Death is the end of all pain. A philosopher may question this theory but once again, it is only an opinion.
Socrates argued that true wisdom comes from knowing that you know nothing. He expresses that he would rather die, a wise man then to live his life pretending to know things when he is really ignorant. He also believes that he would be defying the will of his God if he gives in. He believes that God has given him a duty to question the men who believe they are wise when they are not. Therefore, if he chose exile, Socrates would not be able to carry out his purpose in life. He wouldnt be able to stick to his beliefs about humble acknowledgement of one's ignorance, and striving for the "greatest improvement of the soul." When Socrates chose to die, he justified his argument that one must seek virtue and live towards greater goods, rather than material and physical things of the world. If he had chosen to live, everything he was living for and teaching to his followers would mean nothing. Staying true to his beliefs, even whe faced with death, strengthened Socrates' philosophy on life and triggered even more followers. Going back on his own word would make him a coward, letting fear take over the greater good. I believe this aspect makes Socrates very similar to the heroes in the Illiad. Achilles and Hector both fought for their people, even though they knew that death was near. Both heroes were destined to die but they chose to fight, because it was the right thing to do. Hector left his whole family behind and fought in the war because he couldnt let his people down. His reputation as a leader and a figure of encouragement for his people would be ruined if he chose to run away. Even when he died, Hector was justifed because he fought his hardest and stuck to his purpose. Therefore, Hector was able to gain respect and honor, even after his death. The idea of living for true virtue and turning away from the "evil" is evident in both stories. The Heroes in the Iliad and Socrates both demonstrate the importance of the good of humanity and straying away from selfish desires and needs. Socrates believes that trully humbling yourself and realizing your ignorance is the most important purpose in life. The Iliad also demonstrates this in the end when Achilles finally changes internally as a person who can feel and sympathize for others. He is able to understand the importance of virtue and doing what is right.
Socrates is wise to choose death over exile because he is standing up for what he believes in. He is staying true to his values even if it means death. He says "I would rather die having spoken after my manner, than speak in your manner and live. For neither in war nor yet at law ought I or any man to use every way of escaping death"(797). Socrates is further reiterating that he will never change his ideals to stay alive. All in all Socrates sees death as a gain because he is innocent. He states, "...no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or death" (799). Socrates now realizes that death is the just decision because he is not guilty.
The time when Achilles, Socrates or Antigone lived was so much different from now. Our values are different and not many would chose to die. We are all scared to die because we do not know what will happen after and most of us want to live a long good life. However, I think that Socrates made a right decision choosing the death over exile. Socrates believed in soul that comes back after the death in a different body and the true knowledge, man can only know when the soul is separated from the body (after death). Perhaps, he wanted to find out already? As Socrates spent all his life on questioning others and trying to find the truth and wisdom he realized that others are not as smart as they think they are. He knew that he is smarter among them just because he, as the only one was able to admit that we don’t really know anything. Perhaps, his mission was accomplished and he was not terrified to die? Moreover, he was not afraid because why should he? Nobody really knows what happens after death. Maybe there was the real truth and wisdom waiting for him, the answer to all the questions he asked in his life. Life would not make sense to Socrates if he could not continue his study in exile. He compares himself with Achilles…”Had Achilles ant thought of death and danger? For wherever a man’s place is, whether the place which he has chosen or that in which he has been placed by a commander, there he ought to remain in hour of danger; he should not think of death or anything but of disgrace.”
I feel that Socrates is correct in choosing death over exile. In the Iliad we saw that death was inevitable and something that had to be faced because it was the fate of all humans. For Socrates it is still considered a knowledgeable journey for truth extended. For Socrates to choose exile would show his followers that he was afraid of death and not willing to continue his search for truth. The Greek put so much emphasis on death and what lies beyond that it is only the right thing for Socrates to experience death beyond what people know in society. Therefore, I feel he is continuing his search and shows to his dissenters that he is following his beliefs to the very end and that nothing can waver his choices. People don't change their beliefs because of what others think and that is what I think he is trying to prove.
In order for us to understand Socrates decision of choosing death over exile, we should familiarize ourselves with some of his ideas. In other word, we should put ourselves in his shoes. I’ll try to explain some of his ideas without turning the GreatWorks into a philosophical blog. The Great philosopher Socrates believes in higher level of reality beyond what we sense. According to him, there is more in reality that people are ignorant of it. He thinks that “Ideal” exists but what we see is only an imperfect approximation of it. He was able to prove that the justice system of his time was completely unjust, and many politicians and people of different tribes that would consider themselves wise, are completely ignorant. Therefore, that led to his execution. He has his own logics to explain and support his ideas that I don’t want to get into it here and now (unless this was a philosophy discussion weblog). Having that said, I would consider Socrates as someone who cares about virtue and is opposite to a materialistic people and the world of material that we’re surrounded in. Keeping that in mind, Socrates who is in his 70s is not afraid of death because he defines it as either eternal rest or seeing great people that he always wanted to meet. On the other hand, Exile was a dreadful torment for him. Leaving the city that he loves and grew up in, and people that he’s well-known among them was the worse agony that he didn’t want to choose over an honorable death. Throughout his defense, Socrates compares himself to Achilles of Iliad who had to make a similar decision that was whether to live a dishonorable life by not avenging his friend or to avenge his friend by killing Hector and die himself honorably afterward. Even though Achilles was warned by his goddess mother that his death will arrive if he kills Hector, he still decides to avenge his friend because if he wouldn’t have done so, he’ll live a disgraced life. Therefore, Socrates uses Achilles to illustrate why he chose death over exile. In the end, Socrates thinks that “A man who is good for anything ought not to calculate the chance of living or dying; he ought only to consider whether in doing anything he is doing right or wrong”(page 789). Therefore, He chose to stay that led to an honorable death with glory for his belief rather than leaving the City exile.
I believe Socrates’ decision to choose death over exile was the last and most important step of his lifetime. Throughout Socrates life, he would go around Athens questioning people on their beliefs, why they believed that and showing them his point of view on the question. Never once did Socrates change his answer or opinion on a certain question/view regarding who the individual might be in society. To be a philosopher one must stand by their beliefs and not be afraid to state his or her opinion, Socrates did just that. Exile was out of the question for the old elderly man, Socrates could not leave the city he loved and not stand up for his beliefs in which he had been preaching his entire life. By choosing death over exile, it’s as if Socrates had reached the final step of a philosopher, to die for your beliefs, the ultimate goal. By achieving this very step people to this day still study and talk about Socrates. As far as comparing Socrates to the heroes of the Iliad, both have similarities. Heroes in ancient Greece died in battle because of the belief in arestia. The greatest death and ultimate achievement of a warrior is to die in battle, this would make you a hero. These warriors died for their beliefs just as Socrates, and by dying for their beliefs each of them had reached the final step/goal.
My anarchist heart screams about how foolish it is to die for the state. In truth, it's very difficult for me to pass judgement on this - because the whole concept of the state was totally different in the age of Socrates. The world was smaller then. To Socrates, I imagine there must have been a very real and meaningful sense belonging - a sense of place in his community. I think for him, it was better to die for his beliefs than to live and dishonor them. I also think his decision was probably influenced by a sense of religion. As an atheist, I can't relate to that, so again - I make no attempt to judge.
ReplyDeleteIf nothing else, I recognize Socrates as one of the greatest minds of the ancient world, so if I had to guess, I'd say yes - it was probably very wise of him.
I think Socrates was a wise, poor, and very smart man. God had sent him to Greeks as rightious man. He had his own followers and enemies at the same time. He made enemies from observing number of people, such as politicians, poets, and craftsman, who pretendet to possess some kind of knowledge. In reality, Socrates found them having some or no knowledge. Hence, he accounted them as unwise because they did not know sh*t. Heros of the Iliad and the Odysseey, on the other hand, were arrogant, full of rage, and professional fighters, such as Achilles.
ReplyDeleteSocrates's wisdom appealed to me more than Achillies's aristeia. I liked the way he questioned,cross-examined, and contradicted Meletus, one of his accusers. He was innocent of the charge because he proved it by reasoning. He also called people to testify against him if he truely was an evil man. No one did.
Was he wise to chose death over exile? I think yes he was. First, he beleived in destiny. Therefore, he was sure that it was his fate to die there. Second,he was old and poor, as he said, "For I am far advanced in years, as you may perceive, and not far from death." Therefore, going to a foreign country could not guarantee longer and better life. Third, he said that he had nothing to loose. He thaught people not to fear death as some people beleived that diying was something bad and evil. He said that there was either life after death or nothingness. Therefore, Socrates was wise to chose death over exile.
I agree with Firuz that questioning one's life is better than proving how good you are by how many enemies you killed. As if Socrates was wise to chose death over exile is not clear to me. I believe that to go to exile is not option for Socrates no matter what. It would change him dramatically.He was a man of principle and truth. He upheld his believes and principles eventhough meant his death.
ReplyDeleteWas Socrates believes wise?
He believed that by going to exile he would breach the social contract with Athene. In his dialog to Crito he used the Parent child comparison. He says "it is impious to use violence against your father or your mother."
I do not believe that one has the moral obligation towards his country in this way.
He also believed that the exile is act of violence on Athens. Since the laws would not be upheld the Athens would crumble. I don't believe that his exile would have such effect.
To sum this up I think he could not chose exile because of his believes. Is that wise? Perhaps in Socrates case yes. Was his believes valid and wise. I am not quite sure.
From all the Greek figures we have encountered this semester thus far Socrates stands out to me the most. Socrates by far is the wisest of all. It is not merely what he knows, but it is what he questions. In Socrates case it was wise to choose death over exile for several reasons. One he was already old he was not going to live a much longer life, two if he chose death he would die with glory, meaning in a way he achieved his goal that God sent him to the people to open their eyes and tell them the truth. I believe that if Socrates would of chosen exile his name today would not be as admired. He died for what he believed in he died a pure man.
ReplyDeleteWhat actually appealed to me the most was the way in which Socrates was defending himself and making Meletus and the rest of his accusers feel ignorant and wrong. Me personally wanting to be come a lawyer admire such a great defense.
I would like to correct my previous post little bit. Although I was more addressing why he did not accept the offer to escape, I think it also helps to illustrate how loyal he was to Athens. He also realized that no mater where he would go he would offed and irritated people and they would soon or later execute him any how.
ReplyDeleteSocrates was a wise man, who favored his belief over the society and gods. I think he was wise enough to choose death over exiled because as he says that he was teaching his students to obey laws and government and if he had gone against these laws than he would have been looked over as a bad figure in history as compare to what we see him today second of all he was really old and he didn't have any wealth that he can live happily even when he is exiled.
ReplyDeletePhilosophers were look upon as a great figure in society and there was a lot of respect for teachers in Athenian society, but not as much as compare to war heroes because teachers were often slaves for other countries. In ancient society everything was dependent over power and power was gained through conquer and large armies, so we can say that war heroes were more of figure as compare to philosophers.
I have to say, the Greeks (at least in story) had it right about death. This concept that life is permanent, this fear of death we've all developed, the sense of self preservation, is such bull sh*t. We are dying from the moment we are born and it's what you do with the time you have that matters. Socrates knew that and for that, he chose to die, and die well.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying anyone should cut their life short deliberately. I'm not saying one day out of the blue you decide "Well, I'm dying anyway, let's just speed this process up." But Socrates, Achilles, Antigone, they knew death would come when it came and they all preferred to have done one good thing with their (short) lives, than nothing at all with a long one.
Now, Socrates lived a long life. He was an old man. What would he have gained by living a few more years in exile? Nothing. And so, in that respect, he made the correct, logical choice. But it's more than that; to have chosen anything other than death would have made his entire life a waste of time. How important would the things he had been saying his entire life be if at the moment of truth he retracted them?
Same goes for Achilles; he knew if he went back to battle, to kill Hector, death would come to him shortly after. But death is coming anyway, so what would he have gained by living a long life, having the un-avenged death of his companion on his back weighing him down? Antigone looked death square in the eye. She made her choice and stood by it to the end.
These people are made of “the good stuff.” They are made not only of courage, but of wisdom. The wisdom to know that permanency is a lie and so to follow your heart, whatever the consequences, is the not only the right way to be, but the only way (or at least it should be).
Was it wise for Socrates to choose death over exil?
ReplyDeletePersonally I would disagree because I don't have the same standards as Greek philosophers. But for Socrates life is about questioning his surrounding and discover the unknown. Through out the text, he made it clear that he knew the outcome of an exile. Running away from Athens would not only broke the rules he lived by but he knew there was no place else to go as elder and politicians would persecute him as soon as he open his mouth and educate the youth. What was the unknown out come? Death was.
I think he chose death because he was questioning it. He was eager to discover if the is an afterlife or not. Also by running he would have made his accusers' point as not been able to live by the rules he taught others.
Heroes conquer the world to acquire fame. Philosophers question it...
I think Socrates was wise to choose death over exile because when your exiled your left alone to think about what you did. Basically your being punished for having your own mind and thoughts and whose right it is to judge you for having your own thoughts about what you believe in? Its nobody's right because there is other people out there that believes and thinks the same things as you do. I feel that Socrates knew that and he even stated that if you kill me or exile me there is going to be somebody else that will make a bigger protest and you might not be able to control them. Also the fact that he was an old man when he was judged had a factor to that, he lived his life to the fullest and if he went into exile he would have to start his life all over again, but that doesn't mean that his way of thinking was going to change. So he decided for death because it was more sensible and the only other alternative.
ReplyDeleteSocrates and Achilles stood up for something they believed, even though an easier opportunity was given. Socrates chose death over exile because he could not live in a world were his thoughts and ideas would be limited or forbidden. He truly believed his words, and could not understand why others saw it as a threat or danger. Perhaps we was right after all, and the majority was trying to hide and even eliminate his statements. Just like Socrates, Achilles did not want to give into Agamemnon's offer in Book 9. It is not only pride, but also self realizations that both characters have and it can not be taken away by anyone. Only death could put these two figures at rest, and after that as Socrates says: "only god knows".
ReplyDeleteThere are many good reasons for Socrates to choose death over living. In stead of fearing to die, which many people wish he would do, he stood up for what he believes in. It would make a great impact on his follower and inspire others. As we all know, Socrates loves to pursuit truth and his country, he believes if his death can lead to a dramatic change in this culture, why not. On the other hand, if he did took back his words, then he would be nothing special, he would just seem like a kid who doesn't know what he is talking about, needs someone to teach him what's real. It would show that he is not so confident at his belief, at least not confident enough to sacrifice himself. So by looking at the long-run, Socrates did the right thing.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal opinion, Socrates decided correctly on death over being exiled. Being exiled could possibly be one of the biggest sources of torture any individual. If one would question how this is so, one can put themselves in the shoes of that individual. Imagine, as being a natural born United States citizen, you become exiled from being in your homeland. Would you not suffer more pain being some where of which is not your homeland? No family, No friend, No reason to have nationalistic views. This would cause much more pain than that of a short term pain of death. Death is the end of all pain. A philosopher may question this theory but once again, it is only an opinion.
ReplyDeleteSocrates argued that true wisdom comes from knowing that you know nothing. He expresses that he would rather die, a wise man then to live his life pretending to know things when he is really ignorant. He also believes that he would be defying the will of his God if he gives in. He believes that God has given him a duty to question the men who believe they are wise when they are not. Therefore, if he chose exile, Socrates would not be able to carry out his purpose in life. He wouldnt be able to stick to his beliefs about humble acknowledgement of one's ignorance, and striving for the "greatest improvement of the soul." When Socrates chose to die, he justified his argument that one must seek virtue and live towards greater goods, rather than material and physical things of the world. If he had chosen to live, everything he was living for and teaching to his followers would mean nothing. Staying true to his beliefs, even whe faced with death, strengthened Socrates' philosophy on life and triggered even more followers.
ReplyDeleteGoing back on his own word would make him a coward, letting fear take over the greater good.
I believe this aspect makes Socrates very similar to the heroes in the Illiad. Achilles and Hector both fought for their people, even though they knew that death was near. Both heroes were destined to die but they chose to fight, because it was the right thing to do. Hector left his whole family behind and fought in the war because he couldnt let his people down. His reputation as a leader and a figure of encouragement for his people would be ruined if he chose to run away. Even when he died, Hector was justifed because he fought his hardest and stuck to his purpose. Therefore, Hector was able to gain respect and honor, even after his death.
The idea of living for true virtue and turning away from the "evil" is evident in both stories.
The Heroes in the Iliad and Socrates both demonstrate the importance of the good of humanity and straying away from selfish desires and needs. Socrates believes that trully humbling yourself and realizing your ignorance is the most important purpose in life. The Iliad also demonstrates this in the end when Achilles finally changes internally as a person who can feel and sympathize for others. He is able to understand the importance of virtue and doing what is right.
Socrates is wise to choose death over exile because he is standing up for what he believes in. He is staying true to his values even if it means death. He says "I would rather die having spoken after my manner, than speak in your manner and live. For neither in war nor yet at law ought I or any man to use every way of escaping death"(797). Socrates is further reiterating that he will never change his ideals to stay alive. All in all Socrates sees death as a gain because he is innocent. He states, "...no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or death" (799). Socrates now realizes that death is the just decision because he is not guilty.
ReplyDeleteThe time when Achilles, Socrates or Antigone lived was so much different from now. Our values are different and not many would chose to die. We are all scared to die because we do not know what will happen after and most of us want to live a long good life. However, I think that Socrates made a right decision choosing the death over exile. Socrates believed in soul that comes back after the death in a different body and the true knowledge, man can only know when the soul is separated from the body (after death). Perhaps, he wanted to find out already? As Socrates spent all his life on questioning others and trying to find the truth and wisdom he realized that others are not as smart as they think they are. He knew that he is smarter among them just because he, as the only one was able to admit that we don’t really know anything. Perhaps, his mission was accomplished and he was not terrified to die? Moreover, he was not afraid because why should he? Nobody really knows what happens after death. Maybe there was the real truth and wisdom waiting for him, the answer to all the questions he asked in his life. Life would not make sense to Socrates if he could not continue his study in exile.
ReplyDeleteHe compares himself with Achilles…”Had Achilles ant thought of death and danger? For wherever a man’s place is, whether the place which he has chosen or that in which he has been placed by a commander, there he ought to remain in hour of danger; he should not think of death or anything but of disgrace.”
I feel that Socrates is correct in choosing death over exile. In the Iliad we saw that death was inevitable and something that had to be faced because it was the fate of all humans. For Socrates it is still considered a knowledgeable journey for truth extended. For Socrates to choose exile would show his followers that he was afraid of death and not willing to continue his search for truth. The Greek put so much emphasis on death and what lies beyond that it is only the right thing for Socrates to experience death beyond what people know in society. Therefore, I feel he is continuing his search and shows to his dissenters that he is following his beliefs to the very end and that nothing can waver his choices. People don't change their beliefs because of what others think and that is what I think he is trying to prove.
ReplyDeleteIn order for us to understand Socrates decision of choosing death over exile, we should familiarize ourselves with some of his ideas. In other word, we should put ourselves in his shoes. I’ll try to explain some of his ideas without turning the GreatWorks into a philosophical blog. The Great philosopher Socrates believes in higher level of reality beyond what we sense. According to him, there is more in reality that people are ignorant of it. He thinks that “Ideal” exists but what we see is only an imperfect approximation of it. He was able to prove that the justice system of his time was completely unjust, and many politicians and people of different tribes that would consider themselves wise, are completely ignorant. Therefore, that led to his execution. He has his own logics to explain and support his ideas that I don’t want to get into it here and now (unless this was a philosophy discussion weblog). Having that said, I would consider Socrates as someone who cares about virtue and is opposite to a materialistic people and the world of material that we’re surrounded in. Keeping that in mind, Socrates who is in his 70s is not afraid of death because he defines it as either eternal rest or seeing great people that he always wanted to meet. On the other hand, Exile was a dreadful torment for him. Leaving the city that he loves and grew up in, and people that he’s well-known among them was the worse agony that he didn’t want to choose over an honorable death. Throughout his defense, Socrates compares himself to Achilles of Iliad who had to make a similar decision that was whether to live a dishonorable life by not avenging his friend or to avenge his friend by killing Hector and die himself honorably afterward. Even though Achilles was warned by his goddess mother that his death will arrive if he kills Hector, he still decides to avenge his friend because if he wouldn’t have done so, he’ll live a disgraced life. Therefore, Socrates uses Achilles to illustrate why he chose death over exile. In the end, Socrates thinks that “A man who is good for anything ought not to calculate the chance of living or dying; he ought only to consider whether in doing anything he is doing right or wrong”(page 789). Therefore, He chose to stay that led to an honorable death with glory for his belief rather than leaving the City exile.
ReplyDeleteI believe Socrates’ decision to choose death over exile was the last and most important step of his lifetime. Throughout Socrates life, he would go around Athens questioning people on their beliefs, why they believed that and showing them his point of view on the question. Never once did Socrates change his answer or opinion on a certain question/view regarding who the individual might be in society. To be a philosopher one must stand by their beliefs and not be afraid to state his or her opinion, Socrates did just that. Exile was out of the question for the old elderly man, Socrates could not leave the city he loved and not stand up for his beliefs in which he had been preaching his entire life. By choosing death over exile, it’s as if Socrates had reached the final step of a philosopher, to die for your beliefs, the ultimate goal. By achieving this very step people to this day still study and talk about Socrates. As far as comparing Socrates to the heroes of the Iliad, both have similarities. Heroes in ancient Greece died in battle because of the belief in arestia. The greatest death and ultimate achievement of a warrior is to die in battle, this would make you a hero. These warriors died for their beliefs just as Socrates, and by dying for their beliefs each of them had reached the final step/goal.
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